tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post5452554481790230607..comments2024-01-07T05:28:45.522-08:00Comments on Thmazing's Thutopia: From today's baptism (svithe)Th.http://www.blogger.com/profile/16460795570237872290noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-45948307755225015792009-09-15T15:46:59.894-07:002009-09-15T15:46:59.894-07:00Interesting. I don't consider OSC's wildl...Interesting. I don't consider OSC's wildly uneven work transparent at all. His voice, to my taste, is overbearing, and I dearly wish someone would dare to edit his endless philosophizing. <br /><br />I do agree that those early Alvin books are some of his best writing. In fact, with OSC, as far as I'm concerned, the earlier, the better.<br /><br />But this wasn't supposed to be a rant-bash.<br /><br />And I agree about Vonnegut and Pratchett--metafiction like theirs demands a distinctive authorial intrusion.Luisa Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15310698422276446909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-86436570321202732832009-09-15T15:39:22.228-07:002009-09-15T15:39:22.228-07:00Cool. I'm not sure what I ever learned or what...Cool. I'm not sure what I ever learned or what I need to unlearn. I'm one of those horrible literary critic writers who relies on osmosis.Wm Morrishttp://www.motleyvision.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-35720936719852880392009-09-15T14:09:15.152-07:002009-09-15T14:09:15.152-07:00.
I hear you William. One of my goals as a writer....<br /><br />I hear you William. One of my goals as a writer these days is to unlearn all of the professionalism I've learned. I'm trying to unlearn strict 3p-omni etc. My current book is an exercise in getting in the way. Too soon to say if I'm being successful, but it's a fun change.<br /><br />That said, as may now be obvious, my "official" stance is to follow all those rules. I'm just choosing to break them at present.<br /><br />It's interesting that sometimes authorial voice can help <i>create</i> the world --- Pratchett and Vonnegut come to mind. We certainly have room for both schools.Th.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16460795570237872290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-28251264259091868882009-09-15T14:02:52.871-07:002009-09-15T14:02:52.871-07:00My negative reaction to transparency is mainly con...My negative reaction to transparency is mainly connected with the work of Orson Scott Card. OSC is a big time advocate of a transparent style. That involves several elements:<br /><br />1. The use of third person limited omniscient.<br />2. Sentence structure that is fairly simple (without being the minimalist style of, say, Hemingway) and eschews the use of adjectives and generally avoids metaphor, simile, metonymy and other literary devices.<br />3. Very little free indirect discourse. <br />4. A dampening of the natural polyvocal (heteroglossia) tendencies of the novel -- that is the bringing in of bits and pieces of discourse from a wide variety of other discourses and discourse communities.<br />5. Spare description. A focus on action and dialogue. Screenplay-esque.<br /><br />The odd thing, in my opinion, is that OSC's best work is where he gives in to his more literary, strong-voiced impulses. The best example of this is the Alvin series. Compare the first 2-3 novels with the rest of them. There are major differences. The latter novels lack the flavor of the earlier ones. In addition, OSC indulges too much (under the cover of transparency) in some of his pet biases against psychology, lawyers, etc. So the ironic is that the Alvin novels that contain the most transparent writing also contain the most getting in the way of the author's voice. The exact opposite of what RC is looking for. <br /><br />Now mind you, I'm not allergic to all writer who produce fairly transparent prose. Nor am I a fan of authors who too ornately encrust their prose. But some voice and style and poetry is good.Wm Morrishttp://www.motleyvision.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-8058500381424782602009-09-15T13:56:02.080-07:002009-09-15T13:56:02.080-07:00What Recession Cone said.
But now I want to hear ...What Recession Cone said.<br /><br />But now I want to hear more about "crazy" from Wm.Luisa Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15310698422276446909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-26591571527191960992009-09-15T13:51:51.055-07:002009-09-15T13:51:51.055-07:00To me, transparency means that the author's vo...To me, transparency means that the author's voice doesn't get in the way of the story. Writing is untransparent when it has lots of little hitches that make you stop and re-read to figure out what the author meant, or when it's full of editorializing and moralizing instead of actual story. Basically, anything the author does that distracts me from the world they've created makes writing untransparent. Conversely, if I feel immersed in a story, I would say it's written in a transparent style.<br /><br />Of course, I'm sure other people understand this differently... =)Recession Conehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04288371918529972744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-81952682921537770212009-09-15T12:39:04.749-07:002009-09-15T12:39:04.749-07:00I'd be interested to hear what conclusions you...I'd be interested to hear what conclusions you come to. I'm not familiar with the term.Mei Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16555301052471627381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-44847063386451161822009-09-15T10:10:44.554-07:002009-09-15T10:10:44.554-07:00.
Hey! I got an idea! Let's define transparen....<br /><br />Hey! I got an idea! Let's define transparency!Th.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16460795570237872290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-34532280043224252352009-09-15T07:30:42.283-07:002009-09-15T07:30:42.283-07:00I agree on the pacing. This whole transparent styl...I agree on the pacing. This whole transparent style thing, though, drives me crazy. Assuming you mean the same thing I do by transparent style, of course.Wm Morrishttp://www.motleyvision.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15224520.post-15875232651015652162009-09-15T07:15:48.326-07:002009-09-15T07:15:48.326-07:00Absolutely lovely: clear and direct.
Off-svithe: ...Absolutely lovely: clear and direct.<br /><br />Off-svithe: I read "The Widower" on Friday while waiting in a doctor's office. I really enjoyed your exploration of the guilt and loneliness a person in that situation must suffer. You've got transparent style (my highest compliment) and a great sense of pacing.Luisa Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15310698422276446909noreply@blogger.com